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Fri, Nov. 14th, 2008, 01:41 am
vitaislade: Needing help breaking down a hand

I tried, but I can't sleep. This same hand from today keeps replaying in my head over and over again. I need help breaking it down. If you could give me your thoughts, it would be much obliged.

I had been playing at this table for a good few hours. It was a nice tight-aggressive table with a good few fishies feeding it. I am sitting in seat 9, next to the dealer. I had recently folded a good hand to what I saw to be a dominating hand (my queen-king with an outside straight draw against one person already all-in and the other pushing a heavy stack all-in with pocket kings.). My mindset was still in good poker-playing mode, but a little looser than I would usually play for the simple fact of hitting the nine on the turn after folding to the all-in. Anyway...

It is a $2-$2 no limit live game table. I looked down at 10-9 of diamonds in good position. I raised to $10, which is a pretty standard raise for this game if you don't want every single person who receives a hand to call you. Seat three in the big blind re-raises my $10 to $25 total. Considering how he has been playing past hands, I immediately put him on K-K, but of course, it is still only a pair. It is $15 to call and I am in for $10 already. If I hit better than K-K, I'm sure this guy will be pushing on me the whole way. I make the call. Flop comes Jack of diamonds, Queen of clubs, King of diamonds. A perfect flop. He is first to act and it is heads-up. He bets $20. I do my best acting job knowing I just flopped a straight and putting him easily on a set. I grumble and "think" and run numbers through my head. I very "unwillingly" smooth-called him saying, "Alright, one-time". Turn card Ace of hearts. He pushes all-in for about $70-$80 and I call as soon as his chips cross the betting line. No need to act anymore. I show the nuts and he shows, sure enough, trip kings. River card Jack for the boat.

In my eyes, it was a horrendous suckout on an amazingly played hand. I knew what he had the entire time, and had I not hit two pair or better vs his kings I would have easily folded. With the implied odds of how much was in his stack, knowing he would push it no matter what came, and knowing exactly what he had do you think I played it right? If not, what did I do wrong and how can I make sure not to make that same mistake again?

I talked to a few players and they said I played it fantastically, but they didn't like the call of the re-raise preflop. I was already in for $10, it was only $15 more to call for implied odds of another $80-$100 or so if I hit. Suited connectors take down pairs all day long. But knowing what I knew, do you still think I made the right play every step of the way? How would you have played it different? He pretty much called me a donkey for the way I played it, but I wasn't the one pushing with four cards to a straight with only trips. Was I the donkey or was he? All responses welcome. Thanks for your input.

Fri, Nov. 14th, 2008 07:46 am (UTC)

Pre-flop: If you're supremely confident in your read, your raise was wrong. Actually, your raise was just a steal raise. You're getting lousy odds and there's not that much money in the pot. If you're not so confident (maybe he could have AK or 88) your call was fine, if speculative.

I think you should have re-raised on the flop with your second nuts and flush draw. I mean, if you're absolutely, positively sure he had KK, your call is correct -- but what about QQ, JJ, AK, and AQd? Against virtually any hand other than a flopped set, you should have raised.

It sounds like he didn't raise enough pre-flop ($50 would have been better). Having bet $25 pre-flop, I would have moved all-in on the flop due to the flush draw.

The suckout was hardly horrendous. Kings held up. They're supposed to. T9 lost. It's supposed to. He was a 4:1 favorite pre-flop, then a 3:2 dog and then a 3:1 dog. But he didn't know because you priced him in. BFD.

Fri, Nov. 14th, 2008 08:07 am (UTC)

That's pretty much how I read it.

I would have gone big on the flop. I might not have acted as weak as there are all over cards and your flush draw, unless you catch the Q is just better than average as all he needs is the A or the Q with another diamond tobeat your potential flush. A-10 had you crushed unless a diamond hits.

However, if you had a good read on him (and it appears you did) and put him on Ks, I think you did the right thing other than not pricing him a little further out. He has 11 outs after the turn. 22% is pretty good.

But, he did get lucky.

Fri, Nov. 14th, 2008 11:20 am (UTC)

OK, reraise preflop means that he has an overpair or AT+. However, the flop flatcall is not with the nuts, but with second nut straight, so it's somewhat vulnerable to a higher draw (if he has Ax, not to mention AT) as well as the flush draw and the draw to the full, with a set. In the interest of protecting your temporary lead, a reraise allin there would be better. The turn A would bring a split pot if he had the T, or in this case, it brought 3 more outs to his fullhouse draw, but you have to call with your straight. The river is his suckout. No big deal. I don't see what the noise is all about, and his calling you a donkey is disingenous, I would ignore it and charge him more for his draws.

Fri, Nov. 14th, 2008 02:05 pm (UTC)

lol at this entire post.

Sun, Nov. 16th, 2008 12:35 am (UTC)

You had him by the short hairs; he sucked out on you. That's poker.

Hand's over; next hand....

Sun, Nov. 16th, 2008 06:47 pm (UTC)

"It was a nice tight-aggressive table with a good few fishies feeding it."

"I looked down at 10-9 of diamonds in good position. I raised to $10, which is a pretty standard raise for this game if you don't want every single person who receives a hand to call you."

This is an oxymoron, assuming you're not being sarcastic. If six people routinely call a $10 raise, you are a not at a tight-aggressive table. And if you are really at a tight-aggressive table, you are certainly not the tight one.

You "apparently" have pretty good hand reading ability. But you should probably work on your ability to describe hands and understand position. There's a big difference between raising T9d under the gun or in the cut-off, and it takes way too much effort to figure out what position you were at in the hand with what you wrote.