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Thu, Sep. 24th, 2009, 11:11 am
quill18: Open-Limp from SB?

So, I'm playing 25NL daily now (especially with the Take 2 promo at FTP) and I'm noticing one fairly common move: Open-Limping from the SB.

Is there ever a good reason to do this at these limits? I can't think type of a single player I'd want to try this on regardless of my hand. I can see some argument for trapping with AA or something if the player was super-aggressive, but even then...

Every time someone has done that while I was in the BB, I raised it to $1 and I can't think of a single time when I was called, let alone re-raised. People really are trying to limp in out of position against someone getting a free card? Even if they were to call, I'd be in an excellent spot to steal it on the flop regardless of my hand. Maybe I wouldn't do it against an 50%+ VPIP extreme calling station, but otherwise I'm trying to steal the pot.

Maybe it would be different if I had a ton of history with someone, but it's extremely unusual to be seated next to someone you've played with before at these limits (at least with the 14k hands I have at FTP so far).

So what do you think? Never open-limp in SB? Raise the limper with pretty much any two cards from the BB?

Or am I missing something important?

Thu, Sep. 24th, 2009 03:48 pm (UTC)

I'm surprised you aren't getting called. When I've see it, it generally goes like this:
SB - limp
BB - raise
SB - call
SB - check
BB - continuation bet
SB - raise

Thu, Sep. 24th, 2009 03:50 pm (UTC)

At 25NL?

Thu, Sep. 24th, 2009 03:54 pm (UTC)

And also, what kind of hands are they limping with vs. raising?

Generally speaking any hand that I feel is playable from the SB I want to raise with. I suppose there's the risk of an aggressive player seeing it as a steal and occasionally re-raising with air to defend, but the players on FTP seem fairly nitty. Most of the time I win it there.

I'm certainly not hoping to play a marginal hand out of position and I don't want to leave some nitty money on the table when a raise is likely to win it immediately.
(Deleted comment)

Thu, Sep. 24th, 2009 07:24 pm (UTC)

As for Gunga's take on it, I agree up until the last move. Usually I see the SB fold in that case. He starts weak and usually continues that way.

I feel that this is the usual outcome as well. I'll have to run some reports in poker tracker tonight when I get home, but I at least feel that this typically ends up +EV for me.

Thu, Sep. 24th, 2009 08:50 pm (UTC)

im willing to open limp the sb against one type of player in one situation only. The BB has to be very loose passive, both preflop and postlop, and I have to have a hand that is not worth raising (not a clear favorite vs any two cards) and isnt so bad that i want to fold it. Generally these will be suited, connected, or suited connected hands, or i may limp a really bad offsuit ace.

basically im doing this agaisnt people unlikely to raise me, unlikely to bluff me, and very likely to call me.

Sat, Sep. 26th, 2009 08:03 pm (UTC)

Agreed. I'll do this, limp the SB if I have rags if I am getting better than 4-to-1 and I have the chip. The exception is if the BB is an aggressive player.

I have gotten payed off big on occasion when I flop big. If I miss, I can let it go.

It all depends on the price and the BB.